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Post 09 Oct , 12:15

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747heavy wrote:Delphi presentation about passive dampers, and some explainations what different damping curves mean for road car development.

Interesting presentation, 747 (again). I could argue with some of the details, but it is generally, I think, a good discussion of the difficulties encountered, and solutions adopted, by road car development engineers.

A few random thoughts of my own (for what they are worth):

1. The presentation divided damper "effects" into velocity domains. Whilst this might be valid on average, it is not in particular, because velocities reached by dampers will depend on how well a vehicle is damped (overall), on the magnitude & "shape" of surface irregularities, and on the speed of the vehicle. This fact is recognized by manufacturers, at least implicitly, because the suspension of a vehicle will often have different specifications for different countries. Perhaps the biggest differences can be found between USA & European spec. vehicles, but most vehicles developed in the USA, for example, have alternative "California specific" suspension set-ups.

2. "Comfort" (as opposed to "handling") is the over-riding consideration for road cars. Some will disagree with that statement, but I maintain an "ad hoc" data base of over 300 road vehicles tested on a multi-post rig. My estimates of heave mode damping ratio for those vehicles cover the range from 12 to almost 70 percent of critical. It is difficult not to conclude that development engineers will achieve what platform control they can, but that is very much limited by vehicle properties & by a "comfort" requirement.

3. "Comfort" is not a subject raised often by competition drivers. As an aside (& I am certainly not a race driver), my road vehicle happens to be fitted with Magneride, which has selectable default & "sport" settings. The sport setting is evil on road surfaces that are essentially smooth (not that many of these exist in the UK), because it excites engine modes & (I think) it excites a mode that is me sitting on a sprung seat. By way of contrast, the sport setting makes the car both more consistent & more "comfortable" when driving quickly along uneven roads. That might partly be due to clever suspension algorithms, but I have concluded much the same in the past with passively damped vehicles.

4. It is the case, I think, that a "good car" on a poor road surface can feel much like a "poor" car on a good surface. If a road car becomes "out of shape", for any reason, then a driver would be expected to slow down until he feels in control, or comfortable, again (perhaps matching his damping characteristics to the current road surface). That isn't a solution a race driver would find acceptable....

5. The ratio of tyre/spring stiffness for a road vehicle will probably be between 10 & 20. In contrast, the same ratio for a competition vehicle (leaving aside off-road vehicles) will probably be in the range 4 to ... 0.3. It would be unreasonable, I think, to suppose that "rules" developed for one class of vehicle would be applicable to the other. (Again as an aside, simply bolting slick tyres onto an unmodified road car would almost certainly be a mistake).

Overall, I would suggest that the referenced presentation discusses "rules of thumb" used by road car development engineers to achieve satisfactory performance for a particular application (& environment). Please read an earlier post for my views about "rules of thumb".

Interesting presentation, 747 (again). I could argue with some of the details, but it is generally, I think, a good discussion of the difficulties encountered, and solutions adopted, by road car development engineers.A few random thoughts of my own (for what they are worth):1. The presentation divided damper "effects" into velocity domains. Whilst this might be valid on average, it is not in particular, because velocities reached by dampers will depend on how well a vehicle is damped (overall), on the magnitude & "shape" of surface irregularities, and on the speed of the vehicle. This fact is recognized by manufacturers, at least implicitly, because the suspension of a vehicle will often have different specifications for different countries. Perhaps the biggest differences can be found between USA & European spec. vehicles, but most vehicles developed in the USA, for example, have alternative "California specific" suspension set-ups.2. "Comfort" (as opposed to "handling") is the over-riding consideration for road cars. Some will disagree with that statement, but I maintain an "ad hoc" data base of over 300 road vehicles tested on a multi-post rig. My estimates of heave mode damping ratio for those vehicles cover the range from 12 to almost 70 percent of critical. It is difficult not to conclude that development engineers will achieve what platform control they can, but that is very much limited by vehicle properties & by a "comfort" requirement.3. "Comfort" is not a subject raised often by competition drivers. As an aside (& I am certainly not a race driver), my road vehicle happens to be fitted with Magneride, which has selectable default & "sport" settings. The sport setting is evil on road surfaces that are essentially smooth (not that many of these exist in the UK), because it excites engine modes & (I think) it excites a mode that is me sitting on a sprung seat. By way of contrast, the sport setting makes the car both more consistent & more "comfortable" when driving quickly along uneven roads. That might partly be due to clever suspension algorithms, but I have concluded much the same in the past with passively damped vehicles.4. It is the case, I think, that a "good car" on a poor road surface can feel much like a "poor" car on a good surface. If a road car becomes "out of shape", for any reason, then a driver would be expected to slow down until he feels in control, or comfortable, again (perhaps matching his damping characteristics to the current road surface). That isn't a solution a race driver would find acceptable....5. The ratio of tyre/spring stiffness for a road vehicle will probably be between 10 & 20. In contrast, the same ratio for a competition vehicle (leaving aside off-road vehicles) will probably be in the range 4 to ... 0.3. It would be unreasonable, I think, to suppose that "rules" developed for one class of vehicle would be applicable to the other. (Again as an aside, simply bolting slick tyres onto an unmodified road car would almost certainly be a mistake).Overall, I would suggest that the referenced presentation discusses "rules of thumb" used by road car development engineers to achieve satisfactory performance for a particular application (& environment). Please read an earlier post for my views about "rules of thumb".

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